Who knew that finding alcohol could be this hard !
My little sailboat Madsu has a non-pressurized alcohol stove made by Origo.
I love the stove – it’s super hot, needs zero maintenance, and compared to pressurized gas, is super safe.
The stove is responsible for making coffee, hot water for shaving, and all my cooking that isn’t BBQ; in short, one of the most important items on the boat !
Up until this year, I’ve been able to buy denatured alcohol for the stove at one of my local hardware stores - Rona used to stock it with solvents and turpentine – and it was relatively cheap. It was simply called Denatured Alcohol – a no brainer.
This year, I haven’t been able to find it anywhere.
So, I did a quick crash course on alcohol for stoves.
A search on the web shows that other people in Canada have trouble finding denatured alcohol. Other than for use in stove, apparently bike folks use it to clean gears etc.
Denatured alcohol is Ethanol – grain alcohol that’s been treated to make it undrinkable. It burns super hot and while not great for the environment, burning it is slightly LESS bad that burning other types of fuel. Most places I went to looking for this fuel, including my local marine store (Martin Marine in North Vancouver) sell Methyl Hydrate, which will also work in the stove. Methyl Hydrate is wood alcohol – if you’re old enough you probably remember using it in Bunson Burners in high school chemistry.
In any event, I was bent on finding denatured alcohol rather that burn methyl hydrate.
I thought I had found what I was looking for over at West Marine. They sell something called blue flame stove fuel, and though there was very little information on the bottle, I assume this is some type of ethanol mix. I almost had heart failure when I picked up the small bottle (less than a litre) and saw the price tag: $30.00. Burning EverClear would be cheaper. Meanwhile, in the US, West Marine sells a gallon of “soot-free alcohol” for 29.00 !
I’d almost given up, when I stopped by Steveston Marine just off Granville Island. They now stock something called Captain PHAB Marine Alcohol, from a Peterborough Ontario company, Captain PHAB.
It sells for $19.99 for a 4 litre bottle (that’s 1.14 gallons) and it’s a 90-10 mix (Ethanol and whatever they use to make it undrinkable). The staffer told me that one of the reasons denatured alcohol has been hard to find is that one of the main suppliers either went out of business or stopped carrying it.
So, for all you sailers, campers and bikers – try Steveston Marine in the lower mainland, or check your local marine store and if they don’t have it, get them to order it for you from Captain PHAB.
As for me, I’m heading down to the boat right now to fill up my stove and perk up a pot of coffee.
I’m so damned pleased with myself, I might even shave.
Awesome find! Heading out to Granville Island to check it out. Thanks so much for the post!
You’ll see that Steveston Marine has moved their Vancouver store because of redevelopment of their old (awesome) location – it’s still nearby, over at 1667 West 5th Avenue, Vancouver.
I new location will be a lot better once the construction around the corner is finished – right now using the backlane to access their free parking is a nightmare as there is only one way in /out.
OK, so indeed, they had it in the store. 4L for $16 and 1L for $8. Thanks so much for the find again. A friend of mine also recommended to get a bottle of methyl hydrate from Canadian Tire or Home Depot – paint section. That is even cheaper, burns great but does not have the blue colouring of the Captain PHAB, which left some blue residue in my stove after burning. Both work great for any alcohol stove.
Many thanks! I should have googled first – I made the mistake of assuming it would be around in any hardware store.
FYI, for stove-users, the attraction of ethanol over methanol (“methyl hydrate”, old name for it) is that it has more energy. From
http://www.answers.com/topic/alcohol-fuel
“One liter of ethanol contain 21.1 MJ, a liter of methanol 15.8 MJ and a liter of gasoline approximately 32.6 MJ. In other words, for the same energy content as one liter or one gallon of gasoline, one needs 1.6 liters/gallons of ethanol and 2.1 liters/gallons of methanol. Although actual fuel consumption doesn’t increase as much as energy content numbers indicate.”
This may be more than just getting more heat for the same weight and volume; a stove designed for ethanol may run sub-optimally on methanol. The sizes of the holes from which the vapour comes out may assume a certain amount of flame will be produced, enough to keep the alcohol below vaporizing at the right rate. Most stoves run OK on both – just better on ethanol.
For me, it’s just about my tea boiling in 7 minutes instead of 10.
Now, my only problem is finding a decent marine store – in Calgary(!)
PS: Your “10%” is almost certainly methanol – the denaturant of choice, one of my googles claimed. I guess Da Man would prefer that bums and other cheapskates actually DIE and thereby learn not to get around the liquor taxes, not just have to learn how to choke down a gross flavour.
Well, I found ethanol in Calgary, on the web at least:
http://www.petrocraft.ab.ca/product_details?gocart6=product_id%3D167
Calgary is a good place to find chem-lab materials, there are a lot of labs in town via the oil industry.
So lab ethanol runs a mere $14/litre.
Meanwhile, my fruitless searches around hardware stores and so on led me to prices like $8.99 for four litres of methanol. Paying SIX times as much for about 30% more energy value per millilitre doesn’t really pass the common-sense test.
If you’re on a long trip and need to carry a lot of fuel, you’re also running into the calculations that point out the choice of any alcohol stove at all is a bad weight decision; so much more power in isobutane that it pays for the weight of the cannister and heavier stove once you get past 6-7 days of cooking.
I frankly doubt I’ll be on a lot of trips even that long; for me, an alcohol stove was a way to carry a SECOND stove along and not be trapped in the “linear cooking” problem where you can only make one thing at a time and heating coffee or just wash water had to be done after you’d finished supper. It’s cool to have a 1-oz stove and say 8-oz of fuel that allows for rice to be cooking while I make stew; but cooking that rice a few minutes faster just isn’t a good enough reason to go buy lab supplies.
Sigh – if we had a rational approach to drugs, starting with alcohol, then pure ethanol, also handy for drinking if you didn’t need it for your stove, would be in the 4-L jugs next to methanol, for maybe $9.99 for four litres. Or less – it sure costs less when used for cars!
Just wanted to say thank you for your diligence! I’ve been contemplating switching to an alcohol stove for bicycle touring. I’ve also been stumped trying to find Denatured Alcohol in Barrie, Ontario.
I struck out at the local big boxes here. Rona sells 1L of Methyl Hydrate for $4, 4L for$10; Home Depot sells theirs for 25 cents more. Lowe’s doesn’t carry any Methyl Hydrate.
Of interest though, is that all of these stores carry Recochem brand solvents (paint thinner, mineral spirits, varsol, etc.). This is of interest because Recochem also makes Denatured Alcohol:
http://www.recochem.com/us/index.php/products/solvents/paint_thinner/item/denatured_alcohol
The next step is to check if this can be special ordered.
We also have a West Marine, although I haven’t checked with them yet, but on their website, they list S-L-X Denatured Alcohol by Klean Strip. It’s filed under paint removers:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=34250&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10104&subdeptNum=10302&classNum=10308
Not sure if it’s carried by West Marine stores in Ontario, but I have seen other Klean Strip products carried by the big boxes listed above, so it might also be a product that can be stocked/special ordered.
http://www.wmbarr.com/product.aspx?catid=21&prodid=101
If that fails, there is a local marine supply store, Brydon Marine, that is listed as a Captain Phab retailer. I’ve got a call into them, but haven’t heard anything back yet.
The last alternative is Home Hardware and their Fondue Fuel. At $2.19 for 500ml, it still works out to about $17.50 for 4L.
http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/_/N-ntkqd/Ne-ntc74/R-I4038053
Thanks again for broadcasting the word out to the world!
It seems that not all denatured alcohols are created equal!
I checked the Material Safety Data Sheets for the three Denatured Alcohols (DNAs) listed above:
Recochem DNA: Ethanol 95% vs. Methanol 5%
Captain Phab DNA: Ethanol 85-92% vs. Methanol 5-15%
Klean Strip DNA: Ethanol 45-50% vs. Methanol 50-55%
And just for fun:
Recochem Methyl Hydrate: 100% Methanol
I also called the local Lowe’s and Home Depot and they won’t special order any Denatured Alcohol. No word on Rona, but I have no faith that the answer will be any different. I’ll let you all know what I find. Thanks again.
Links to MSDS:
http://64.26.129.203/_profiles/_msds/83-241.pdf
http://www.paynesmarine.com/documents/CaptPhabMarineStoveFuel.pdf
http://www.wmbarr.com/msds.aspx?catid=13
http://64.26.129.203/_profiles/_msds/13-390.pdf
I purchased an EcoSmart zero-vent fireplace this year. It burns denatured alcohol so stores that sell this fireplace all stock it. They are sold across Canada. Find a reseller at http://www.ecosmartfire.com/en/local-fireplace-retailer
Not the cheapest, 5L is $30, but easy to find.
There are other manufactures out there such as http://www.blomus.com that use the same.
A friend of mine mentioned she was at someone’s house who has one of these as well, and I had asked her to find out from them where they were getting their fuel. But you beat them to the punch. Thanks for the info !
ro
I use DNA in model building. I was lucky that my wife, a biologist, had access to lab supplies. But the stocks are running low now and I checked Recochem’s BioFlame fuel for ventless fireplaces.
http://www.recochem.com/en/index.php/products/indoor_living/indoor_living/item/bio_flamesuptm_sup_ethanol_fuel
Go to https://nt9.magma.ca/recochem/consumers/consumerLogin.asp and use MSDS for username and password. Then search product 14-414. You will find Bio-Flame (as sold at Rona/Reno-Depot). MSDS available in Fr and En.
From what I read, correct me if I’m wrong, it is a mix of DNA and Ethyl Acetate. On the packaging it says “Ethanol and Isopropyl alcohol”.
Marc-Antoine
Been looking everywhere for DNA in Ontario with no luck. No one has it, and they all try to sell me methanol instead despite my telling them its not the same.
I just checked your link Marc-Antoine and tried searching for Bio-Flame on Rona’s site with no luck. Plus I’ve never seen it there when searching their BBQ section (where I’d expect to find it).
Gonna grab a gallon next time I cross the border. Anyone think there’d be any issues bringing it across?
Bio Flame is carried by Canadian Tire. $24.99 for 3.78 litres.
Cheers
I thought I saw 4l jugs on sale in the marine dept. of Capital Iron in Victoria for $19.99
http://www.capitaliron.net/marine.html
Thanks! My car has a fluid suspension system calle Hydra
-gas and uses a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and Denatured Alcohol as hydraulic fluid. I was going crazy trying to find the DA. I saw the Captain Phab at Steveston Hardware but was put off by the name and stove fuel labels. Why couldn’t they just put what it is on the label! I’ll go back and buy some tomorrow. Nn pump up my suspension and stop fragging over speed bumps!ow I ca
Any Home Hardware store should be able to special order denatured alcohol for you. Only thing is they don’t call it that. They call it marine alcohol. It’s a 90/10 mixture and it sells for around 32$/gallon.
Denatured alcohol is available on Victoria in the Capital Iron store (3L /$20) and they will send it to the Sidney store if requested. Hope this helps. Jensen Marine on Tyron Road sells PHAB marine alcohol for 8.25 for one litre.
Thanks Susan, that’s great info. Love the Capital Iron store, wish we had something like that over here in Vancouver. That’s a great price for 3 litres, will pick some up next time I’m over on the Island.
For anyone who’s never been to the Capital Iron store in Victora, you’re missing a real treat. Book a few hours off if you’re planning on visiting. Their website doesn’t really do the store justice, it’s an incredible place.
we want denatured alcohol 99% to be used in hospitals and cosmetics. we will buy 16000litres packed 250litre drum to fit a 20 foot comtainer. we want c&f Tema, Ghana.
I have been looking hi and low for denatured alcohol and of course it doesn’t seem to exist in Canada. So I tried the recommended Captain Phab marine alcohol unfortunately none of the marine stores in Calgary carried it. Among all the places that I had called, only Glenmore Boats offered to bring some in for me. It would cost $22.99 for a liter (Ouch!). As a results I set my mind on Bio Flame Ethanol fuel suggested by Marc-Antoine. Called The Bio Flame Calgary store and they had 4L for $25.00. Currently out of stock plus a long drive to go all the way to the SE. Then I noticed Terrence’s suggestion – Canadian Tire. Never in my life thought Canadian Tire would have something useful but I gave them a call anyway. Sure enough, they had the 3.78L for $24.99! By the way, the Bio Flame Ethanol is 88% alcohol, not quite 90%, but close enough. I am happy to have found some in Calgary. It’s been a real PITA trying to find something for my camping stoves. Thanks for all your contributions. Now I can finally be camp happy! Cheers!
thanks for letting us know – it’s incredible how complicating a simple thing like this can be – or at least if you won’t want to get hosed (22.99 a litre – ouch).
Bio Flame composition:
Ethanol 95%
2-Propanol 5%
MSDS:
http://64.26.129.203/_profiles/_msds/14-411.pdf
Website:
http://www.recochem.com/en/products/indoor_living/indoor_living/item/bio_flamesuptm_sup_ethanol_fuel/
Why is everyone paying so much for fuel for their alcohol stoves? Canadian Tire has 4 liter jugs of Methyl Hydrate for around 8 $, you can find the red/black/white jug but they also carry a blue/white jug in the car section, Certified-brand air brake antifreeze, for even less… Been using that one in my Whitebox Solo stove, and it works flawlessly!
As mentioned above, it burns hotter can contains more energy per unit weight. For hikers, this can be a bit of an obsession. (Check out mountain equipment co-op for, say, “a titanium spork” that allows you to leave the fork at home and save 10 grams on the weight of your spoon).
But the larger thing is that some of these stoves, you can’t add fuel to while it is burning. So you can either make two cups of coffee with methanol, or three with ethanol. Period. If you’re cooking for three, it means you don’t have to take turns!
Ahh the obsession. You are bang on except its cool to carry a titanium spork! To your point on adding fuel. I think that the Esbit stoves and wood stoves are the only ones you can add fuel to while they are burning. If you have a lot of time you can use these alcohol stoves for more than one person but at room temp it is almost impossible to bring a litre pot to a rolling boil. It takes about 6-7 minutes to boil 2 Cups of water (at room temp) and the stoves hold about 15 minutes of fuel. Interestingly, the stoves work really good when you use a Primus ETA express pot and try to boil larger amounts.
I started carrying Fuel on our website. I am buying it in 5 Gallon drums. If you need it I’ve got lots!! Its on on website too in 8oz Vargo fuel bottles!
Saw your site last week, prices look competitive and product range looks good. Was thinking that the shipping of the fuel I found would likely make it tough to absorb but I will surely be making up an order for other things in the near future. I bought a Trangia burner which is what I am using in my Canteen Cup Stove from Canteenshop.com
Trangia’s are great. Canteenshop is great! I really prefer ethanol over methal Hydrate even though it is more expensive but I use what ever is around!!
Love to see you over at TacticalMountain
Just ordered a couple 8oz to try out, thanks.
Craig, can you email me prices for larger sizes? I cant find the previous email from my order. Thx.
Hello,
Mostly the cost variable is the bottle that you want me to send it it…
How about $10/ltr plus the cost of the Bottle (I like the nalgene for this) and then the cost of shipping. craig @ tacticalmountian.com
Just went to Canadian Tire yesterday, found methyl hydrate in the automotive section, $9.99 for 4 liters, easy peasy.
.
Hey, found some ethanol in Canada. Not cheap though ($27 / 3.78L):
http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/Indoor-Living/Housewares/Giftware/Decorator-Lighting/Repl-Parts-Fuel/FUEL-ETHANOL-AMBIANCE-3-78L/_/N-2pqfZ67l/Ne-67n/Ntk-All_EN/R-I4360520?Ntt=ethanol#
http://www.ambienceecofires.com.au/About-the-fuel-pg12086.html
But a lot cheaper than the stuff at http://www.petrocraft.ab.ca/product_details?gocart6=product_id%3D186 ($16 / 500ml)
I actually am looking for it to cut dye for leatherworking, as I don’t really want to be spraying Methyl hydrate or isopropyl out of the air brush, and ethanol is much better for this anyways.
Many thanks to everyone….I needed methalyted spirits for a recipe to clean and preserve antique hand tools, that I got from an antique tool dealer in the U.K. where m.s. is used freely…..even in schools….!!
Thank you all.
Brian.
So it’s the best we can find near DA here in canada the BIO FLAME Ethanol ?